15 Brilliant Thoughts About Unschooling (and My Own)
October 28, 2009
(Thank you, Miche, for sharing this video with me… I couldn’t get it out of my head.)
I’ve been thinking an awful lot about making the transition from homeschooling to unschooling Hunter, for many reasons. Maybe it all started with Leo’s post, Education Needs to be Turned on its Head. Or maybe it started back when I was in school and realized I was learning in spite of my teachers, and not because of them.
I recently joined an unschooling group on facebook and found some interesting thoughts by people far more qualified to have an opinion on the matter than I am. Here are 15 of my favorite thoughts about education without commentary because, really, what can I possibly add to the words of these masters:
1. “It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.”
Albert Einstein
2. “What does education often do? It makes a straight-cut ditch of a free, meandering brook.”
Henry David Thoreau
3. “My grandmother wanted me to have an education, so she kept me out of school.”
Margaret Mead
4. “Nothing that is worth knowing can be taught.”
Oscar Wilde
5. “My schooling not only failed to teach me what it professed to be teaching, but prevented me from being educated to an extent which infuriates me when I think of all I might have learned at home by myself.”
George Bernard Shaw
6. “I loathed every day and regret every day I spent in school. I like to be taught to read and write and add and then be left alone.”
Woody Allen
7. “It is absurd and anti-life to be a part of a system that compels you to listen to a stranger reading poetry when you want to learn to construct buildings, or to sit with a stranger discussing the construction of buildings when you want to read poetry.”
John Taylor Gatto
8. “When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it’s a wonder I can think at all.”
Paul Simon
9. “Schools are designed on the assumption that there is a secret to everything in life; that the quality of life depends upon knowing that secret; that secrets can only be known in orderly successions; and that only teachers can properly reveal these secrets. An individual with a schooled mind conceives of the world as a pyramid of classified packages accessible only to those who carry the proper tags.”
Ivan Illich
10. “The only time my education was interrupted was when I was in school.”
George Bernard Shaw
11. “We are students of words; we are shut up in schools, and colleges, and recitation rooms, for ten or fifteen years, and come out at last with a bag of wind, a memory of words, and do not know a thing.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
12. “Everybody gets so much information all day long that they lose their common sense.”
Gertrude Stein
13. “I hated school so intensely. It interfered with my freedom.”
Sigrid Undset (Nobel Prize winner)
14. “I do not believe much in education. Each man ought to be his own model, however frightful that may be.”
Albert Einstein
15. “In the end, the secret to learning is so simple: Think only about whatever you love. Follow it, do it, dream about it…and it will hit you: learning was there all the time, happening by itself.”
Grace Llewellyn
Hmmm… compelling… very compelling.
I know from homeschooling Hunter that I can teach him whatever I want, but he will only fully absorb and remember whatever HE is interested in. So, why am I wasting our time blabbing about all the stuff on the curriculum? This is only marginally better than wasting his time at school, because he is in the comfort of his own home.
I’m not a big fan of wasting time (our most precious resource).
I thought I might throw this question over to you, the wise and wonderful Quest for Balance readers, because then I can blame you if I end up messing up his whole future…
What are your thoughts about unschooling?
In favor? Against? Don’t give a rat’s arse?
Thanks!!
Related posts:
- What Are We “Teaching” Our Children?
- How to Lose Your Worse-than-Useless Thoughts: Dispersal
- Inspiration from Osho: Three Truths About Life
- Seth Godin Answers My Five Burning Questions
- Net Worth vs. Self Worth: The Passion Paradox
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Hey Lisis!
Really powerful quotes!
I found that school does not teach the things it should, it does not prepare someone for the real life. Instead it focuses on all sorts of theoretical things that are almost totally useless in the real world.
One benefit of school is the social aspect. I don’t know if I would have liked studying at home without having lots of people around and being able to have friends and get up to mischief and have fun. After all, this is a big part of what school is about.
Thanks for the post
Diggy – Upgradereality.com´s last blog ..Inspirational and Awesome Quotes
Well, of course, the Paul Simon quote is my favorite
I’m all for unschooling! In fact, I wish I had known about this when Kyrie was younger, because I would have loved to try this out, if just for a little while. When I think about all the time I wasted in school, knowing more than the teachers knew, being bored out of my mind, making up stories in my head instead of listening, drawing instead of taking notes…ugh. I wish I had been in an environment that fostered creativity and respected my opinions instead of cramming facts and figures down my throat.
Yay for you, and yay for Hunter!
Jay Schryer´s last blog ..Thou Shalt Not Sell Out
Bah, my feelings are so similar. After learning the basics of language and mathematics school became increasingly irrelevant. But I did enjoy it for the social aspects and for the fact that we had some great teachers.
Still, the education system is completely ridiculous. I had friends in the top 1% of the country in their chosen subjects and they regularly spoke about how they’d just digest lots of information, regurgitate it and forget it after exams.
David Turnbull´s last blog ..On Feeling Fraudulent
Wow, first of all I think it’s great that you’re homeschooling him, especially if he can do all the basic things schools teach us to begin with (read, write, arithmetic). Teaching is such a hard undertaking, in my opinion. I always thought I made a better student than teacher. Then again, I was a memorizer. I could remember anything for a test, but rarely did I understand the bigger picture behind it (the theory of why whatever it was worked, esp. in science).
I do remember thinking, once I finished college and got into the working world, that if I ever had kids I’d let them skip college if they wanted to. I learned more on-the-job than I did in college. Yet I’m still paying off college loans… Go figure!
I think you’ll make the best decision by trusting your gut. Sending positive energy your way!
Megan “JoyGirl!” Bord´s last blog ..Love Leaves Again
I actually enjoyed my schooling days. It was a lot of fun for me. I mean yes there were the occasional going bonkers during the tests phases. But other than that, I actually think it taught me a lot about the social aspects of life and people. Yes theoretically there were many subjects, eg, maths, and chemistry that i hated to the core. To this date, numbers make me queasy …But then thats me.
If ofcourse she ever decides she doesnt like it…then I would surely respect her decision. But i prefer giving her the choice of her life after giving it a try..than me forcing it down her throat.
I would love to have my daughter go to school, and learn the necessities of life with an open mind. And opening her mind would be my job, with my out of this world whacky ways
This is a huge decision, so think about it from all angles. Your point of view, Jeffs point of view and most importantly Hunters point of view. Cause most of all he will have to live with that decision when he is an adult.
Lots of love and hugs to you and to Hunter.
Zeenat{Positive Provocations}´s last blog ..Our Life’s Shelter
@ Diggy: Thank you for bringing that up… the socialization issue. That’s the one thing that makes most people fearful of the out of school education thing. Here’s my take on that:
1. Not all socialization is great. For some kids, being in school is fun and validating; for others, it makes them feel socially awkward and ostracized. So it has as much potential to backfire… if the kid ends up bullied, or tormented, or simply exposed to awful crap. Homeschoolers here like to say, “Civilized is better than socialized,” because the behaviors at school can be so awful.
This may be a bigger issue in the States than in other countries. I know, when I went to school in Costa Rica, it was a loving, social environment. When we moved to the States, my sister got “jumped” (beat up by a gang of girls) on several occasions, starting in 4th grade. I narrowly escaped that fate by being a “nerd” in the honors classes. So, I’m split on whether it’s always a benefit.
2. But the other thing is, mass socializing is not for every kid. My brother and two sisters have kids who ALL would do better in school… they thrive on the chaos and craziness of group environments. Hunter is not one of those kids, and neither was I. My parents had to MAKE me go out and play with other kids, and it always felt like a punishment, because I wanted to be inside reading, or drawing, or writing, or anything peaceful and quiet and organized.
Kids never struck me as entirely “rational” (although I doubt I used that word at the time)… I preferred to be with adults. Hunter is much the same way. He’d rather read, or build contraptions, or set up LEGO worlds, than engage in some sort of power play with the other boys. He’s not into football, baseball, violent games, or name-calling… so he doesn’t usually have a good time when we throw him in with a group of boys. I guess in that sense, each child needs to be considered individually, since not everyone learns in the same way.
Anyway, thanks for bringing that up because it is a HUGE consideration when deciding whether to keep kids out of school.
@ Jay: I think most kids spend their school time doodling, daydreaming, and generally not paying attention. In our current setting, I can make sure Hunter is paying attention, and I can test him a few times to make sure he understands what I’m saying, but I can’t make him RETAIN that information, or consider it valuable in any way. Information is not valuable until it directly applies to your life… that is when you retain it.
Case in point: I was never mechanically inclined… pretty much a girly girl when it came to machines. My dad tried to teach me how to change a tire, and I think I filed my nails and rolled my eyes through the whole lecture. But then one day, I decided I wanted to learn how to fly. All of a sudden the mechanical side of things was directly relevant to keeping me (and my passengers) alive. Oh, I learned it then, in a majorly committed way… because it mattered.
Once you know the basics (3R’s) and how to learn, only you decide what you will actually remember and apply to life.
I left school at 18 and i do think I would have learnt better at home for mysel. After that, I’ve always studied for myself. Great quotes
Oscar´s last blog ..Freestyle Mind is Now Uncopyrighted
@ David: That’s a great point too… I was one of those 1 percenters. I was Valedictorian of my high school class of 440 students, taking college classes at the same time. I went on to get an MBA, so I was fairly academic and skilled at the “testing game.” But none of that prepared me for life in the real world because it was just a game… the teachers prepare a syllabus with what THEY thing matters, in class they highlight what will be on the test, you memorize those bits of info and regurgitate them in an essay or by filling in bubble sheets, and then you dump out the info so you can absorb the stuff for the next semester.
Einstein once said (and I’m paraphrasing): I never memorize anything I can look up. He didn’t want to use up his intellectual resources with useless facts and numbers that are stored in tables all over the place. He wanted his full brain available for creative thinking and imaginative analysis (what it was designed for). Schools treat our brains as filing cabinets and discourage students from thinking out of the box (it’s too hard to grade a whole group of independent thinkers).
@ Megan: Kids are naturally curious… they want to know more (everything) about what interests them. I just have to be in tune with what Hunter is interested in and use that as a vessel to discuss all sorts of things that are related. I want to foster his curiosity and encourage his love of reading and learning.
The math part I got lucky on because he has an engineering/ physics sort of mind. He has understood abstract math for a few years now. My biggest challenge is getting him to “show his work” because he can do it all in his head. And the only reason I need to teach him to “show his work” is for testing purposes… so the state will allow me to continue homeschooling him. I hate that he still has to learn how to sit at a desk for an hour at a time to fill in bubble sheets! If he can’t do THAT, it doesn’t matter that he reads at a 9th grade level or can do algebra in his head, the state will assume he’s not learning at home! It’s just an antiquated system.
@ Zeenat: I have to run, so I’ll make this quick. I loved school too, back in my day… but it’s not like that anymore (at least not in the States). Kids here regularly graduate from high school without even knowing how to read, and often stressed out by horrible social pressures. Then there’s the ever-increasing issue of teachers having “inappropriate” relations with students, and… somehow, it’s just not the same school system I went through.
But again, for some students, in some schools, it all works out for the best. I just haven’t found “that school” and I don’t think Hunter is “that student”. I honestly wish I could find a school where I could be excited about sending him to have the sort of experience I had because (speaking selfishly) I would have more free time and less psychological pressure. But I haven’t found that yet.
@ Oscar: Well, the good news for you is, you are still young enough that you can continue to learn anything you want in life. It is a shame, though, when you feel as though many years of your life were essentially wasted… or at least, not well spent. That’s Hunter’s biggest reason for NOT wanting to go to school; he doesn’t want to spend 7 hours each day doing stuff that isn’t of his choosing. That is most of his waking hours!
Lisis, you hit the nail on the head.. again
I haven’t been to school for two days now, because me and my friend do a research for a sociology conference. Then next week, I am not going to go to school, because we are preparing for a physics competition. And I miss quite a lot classes because of the school newspaper and the student’s council. I’m not frequenting classes too much.. but these quotes motivate me a little that I’m on the right path, even if my father grown up in the communist times always tells me to go to school and study, because grades are important. I believe that grades in school are not gonna help me ever.
Wow, very nice.
Zoli
Hi Lisis, great quotes, and thanks for the link love, too! I love to see bloggers like you and Leo taking up a subject that I’m so passionate about.
Another great video about education (and globalization and technology) is “Did You Know” or “Shift Happens” on youtube. There are updated versions created recently, but here’s the link to the original, incase you’ve never seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbI-363A2Q
Cheers,
Miche
Miche´s last blog ..There Is No Such Thing As Stuck
Man oh man, this just pisses me off to no end. I remember going to high school and doing the work. Getting praised by teachers everyday for ‘being smart’. My teachers would always say, “He’s a smart boy.” and my parents would reply “Yes he is. He wants to be a doctor.” RIGHT.
The truth is I hated high school. I never cared for the material they taught me. I felt like a robot – constantly churning out the right answers to worksheets I randomly turned in. My ignorant peers would praise me saying “You’re so smart! I wish I was like you!” At the time (okay maybe I still do), I would identify them as idiots. All you have you have to do is open the book and read, geniuses! It was because of this false sense of superiority that I looked down on those lower ranked than me in superficial intelligence, and socialized with no one. I began to see education as just something that would elevate my social status and make everyone around me feel inferior.
I was a very different person in high school. Very condescending. A jerk you might say. I didn’t like myself at all. And I knew that if I kept myself on this path, I would regret it. I didn’t want to keep seeing life as a game to compete with everyone – I wanted to see it as a game to compete with myself and learn the things I was interested in.
Because of this epiphany, by senior year, I gave up. I did homework for no more than an hour or so and papers were turned in at the last minute. I still didn’t socialize with anybody because they were still sheep (blinded by the light of the ever allusive GOLD HONOR ROLL O_o!).
(Aside: There were those who were education junkies seeking grades, or (more predominantly) there were those who just acted like idiots, getting in fights, yell at the teacher, etc. to disrupt the peace.)
By the end of high school, I graduated 11th out of the entire class. And why didn’t I graduate at the top of the class you ask? Simply because of the part of me didn’t want to be cynical and have a superiority complex anymore. I was tired of learning for the sake of grades, but instead wanted to learn for the sake of learning WHAT I WANTED.
And at the end of graduation, I ran out of there (almost literally). Didn’t stay for any pictures, hugs, or whatever else. I have no high school friends that I truly keep in contact with. That’s good enough for me.
I have new friends in college, but they to are still somewhat blinded by society’s education. Sure some learn about their passion, but some are just working towards the big payoff of a lawyer, doctor, or whatever profession they chase.
To sum up everything I’ve been incoherently ranting about, learn about your passion. Don’t follow the herd and learn for the sake of prestige or cash. They will come whether or not you go to school. Learn for the experience. Learn about the things that make you happy.
Alright… I’m done now
Sorry for the mini-post, Lisis.
Have fun learning, Hunter!
John´s last blog ..Why We Should Put an End to the “New Year’s Resolutionâ€
@ Zoli: Well, hon… I can’t tell you to skip classes ’cause I’m not the one paying for them, and I don’t want your father (who grew up in a communist setting) getting mad at me. But, I will tell you this: from the time I started first grade until I graduated from 12th grade, I never got a grade lower than an A (and that included the college classes I took my senior year). I had one hell of a GPA, and I was totally obsessed with it. When I graduated, I realized, no one gives a sh*t about your GPA.
Some jobs require college degrees, and may have some minimum GPA that shows you didn’t sleep through all your classes. But, for the most part, it just won’t matter. Finding and pursuing you passion is WAY more important. Learning about what you are interested in, and what came before, matters. Achieving some arbitrary grade in crazy, random, abstract classes that have nothing to do with reality, doesn’t. That’s what I’ve learned, anyway.
It’s the old saying, “A grade students end up teaching. B students end up working for C students.” You know why? Because the C students were out DOING stuff instead of sitting in a class room rotting away!
Hi Lisis!
That video – Wow! And yet I’m not surprised. I read “Endangered Minds” by Dr. Healy years ago, about the watering down of education, tests, etc. I also taught teachers and I cannot begin to describe how utterly frightening – and disappointing – that was! Whoa! More than half hated teaching, or at least that is the energy they projected. I wanted to yank my kids out of school I’ll tell you!
In my opinion, the educational system needs to be cleaned, burned and totally re-done! It doesn’t begin to honor the talents or interests of the students. No wonder by college they play in class! High school was enough b.s. for them! (Love the Paul Simon song!)
There was a book I read with my kids in junior high – I think it was The Giver? – where this society would screen kids at about age 11 or 12 (after they had the basics of reading/math/etc) and help the kid discover their talent/interest. If they were really strong in one area, then that was the area they pursued, sometimes as an apprentice, learning as they go. This is SO unlike our system which thinks it cranks out “well-rounded” kids, force feeding, say math for instance, to someone who is pursuing art – but by golly you need your damn math credits to graduate!
It sounds like you are doing the right thing for you and for especially Hunter. Socialization can be done thru sports or clubs of interest – he will not be missing a POSITIVE social experience in school necessarily. Hugs of support for you!
Hi Lisis,
I am all for unschooling. I learned more outside of school than in school. Ironically, it was not until I was in college and law school where I saw teachers who really loved teaching. I think maybe that is the problem to some degree.
In my experience, many of my teachers (prior to college and law school ) hated their jobs and you could tell they could not wait for the day to be over. So it was hard t be inspired at school when you are taught by uninspired people.
Some of my friends had the opposite experience. They had passionate teachers and therefore, loved school. So maybe it has more to do with the teacher than the system itself. Does that make any sense? My brain is in a fog today since there has been no sun in the last three days and I am solar powered.
Nadia – Happy Lotus´s last blog ..What Do You Know For Certain?
@ Miche: Thank you for showing me that first video… this one too (but I haven’t seen it yet, so I’ll get back to you with my thoughts on it.) This is definitely one of my soap box topics. Health Care and Education are my issues, I guess. I don’t think we choose our passions; I think they choose us!
@ John: Well, aren’t you the “smart boy”?!
I loved the mini-post. Speaking of which, why haven’t you written a guest post for Q4B? You haven’t lumped me in that group of inferior, idiotic sheep, have you? You’d better be writing something for me as we speak!
I totally had that same school experience. I remember being praised for being so smart and the whole time feeling like I wasn’t being called on to THINK at all… the only thing I had to do was listen and memorize. I was so disgusted with that whole concept that the graduations seemed like a joke. I went to my High School one, because I had to give “the speech” (which, if I remember correctly, was basically anti-establishment). But I did not attend my undergraduate or graduate ceremonies… just had them mail me that expensive piece of paper that I’m still paying for.
I checked the box and moved on to start REALLY living and learning.
Now, about that guest post assignment…
@ Suzen: Now THAT sounds like a fabulous system! I think by about 10 to 12, kids pretty much know what they are into… at least in a general fashion. They like sports, or like to build, or love dance or theater or literature or cooking or… SOMEthing. There is usually one thing that moves them and inspires them more than all others.
That is about the same time when we start “forcing” our kids to be “well-rounded”. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Grown ups don’t have to be well-rounded… we have to be good at the thing we are doing. I don’t want a surgeon who is also a culinary master and golf pro… I want a surgeon who is 100% surgeon, who eats, sleeps and breathes his specialty because he LOVES it.
Why do we make our kids be good at EVERYTHING, only to later force them to specialize in one thing? The argument, I guess, is to expose them to more options they can choose from. But sometimes more options are a curse because then you start considering options based on what they pay, how prestigious they are, how easy it is to make good grades or get a job… instead of choosing what makes your heart sing!
Kids KNOW what they love. The theme varies over time, but what they love remains unchanged… until WE change it by force. Hunter loves to build. When he was 2 to 5, he built train sets. From 5 to 8 it was LEGOs. Now he is getting into contraptions and machines… but it is always building, design, function, physics… making things work as they should. If I decided he should be a painter or a poet or a historian, and tried to make it so, that would be nothing short of a crime.
I’d love to find a way for him to apprentice with someone who builds… anything, really. Hmmm… now you’ve got me thinking again!
Lisis, I’m glad you wrote about this, and great quotes. I am sorting through this one myself right now, with my eldest just starting kindergarten. I read alot of homeschooling and unschooling blogs, because I love the different approaches to learning that I read there, and may homeschool someday. I do absolutely think there needs to be more support for these options. But I am torn, because my mother, stepfather, aunt and cousin were or are all very devoted school teachers, and I know from the letters they get from their former students that they made a real difference in children’s lives. And with 60% of women working, 40% of that primary breadwinners (based on the State of American Women survey that came out last week), and many dual-income couples, clearly school is playing another role in our culture that many don’t want to discuss – it is childcare. And of course many people hate their jobs and don’t want to be working like that, and that’s another social problem, but that’s not everyone. My own doctor is a woman, for example, and a mother, and I’m glad she’s working, and support that choice. So from a feminist perspective also, I feel like we need to make schools work.
So while I support the homeschooling/unschooling communities and love all the ideas germinating there, from a social perspective I feel it’s imperative we get schools right. I think there has been a lot of progress in some areas – so far, my own school district seems very progressive – but obviously there is ALOT of work to do. And supporting teachers is uppermost in my mind, because it is a very hard job. And sure there are slacker and mean teachers, but I don’t think that’s the majority. The majority of the weak teachers are just burnt out. And the rest really want to do their best, and really care about kids, but have a lot working against them.
As for your general point about whether what we really learn in schools is useful, and whether it ever works to ‘force’ kids to learn, I do think that is a huge problem. I hope some changes will be made in this regard…
Lisa (mommymystic)´s last blog ..10 Characteristics of Women’s Energy Bodies
I think school and education is important in the beginning stages.
I used to think math was irrelevant to life (when was I ever going to use it?). But it made me more of a theoretical thinker and a better problem solver.
I used to think really complicated English was unnecessary (just being able to write where people understand was good enough), but it unlocked my creative side and help me think of all the possibilities out there.
However, I do think a lot of the education we learn in school is useless. I think I’ve wasted hundreds of dollars in books of college that I will never use in my life again.
Some of the required classes we had to take to pass our majors were, in my opinion, ridiculous and unrelated.
It is until after college that I realized that education, as morally sounds as it seems to be when you’re presently there, is a big business and robs you of a lot of money.
They key to education doesn’t rely in the materials given to the students, but the student’s passion to learn.
Tristan Lee´s last blog ..Saying Hello to a Stranger: My Awkward One Second Experience
@ Nadia: There is the issue of the occasional Great Teacher… I’m thinking… Dead Poet’s Society kind of teacher. I had four of those, and I’ll never forget them. Mr. Davis was my 8th grade English teacher. Mr. Gugas was my 8th grade History teacher. Mr. Jenkins… my 9th grade Biology teacher, and Mrs. Perkins was 10th grade Literature (the one that taught me that writing should be like a woman’s skirt).
Those four were SPECTACULAR, and did wonders to enhance my abilities and creativity. I am so grateful to them for all that they did… and for loving what they did for a living. But that was FOUR teachers, out of 18 years of school. For each great teacher I had, there were at least ten who were indifferent to me or the subject, another ten who seemed to hate their job or kids or both, and a few more who were Napoleonic evil tyrants. All in all, it wasn’t worth the hundreds of crappy teachers for the thrill of meeting four great ones.
(And I didn’t even have to deal with inappropriate advances… until college… but that’s another story.)
@ Lisa: My reply to Nadia kinda touches on the issue you’ve raised, about great teachers. There are some amazing teachers out there. Awesome movies, like Stand and Deliver, or Dangerous Minds, or Mr. Holland’s Opus, have been made about these wonderful teachers… precisely because they are so rare.
The fact is, we don’t pay teachers well enough to attract the best and brightest, or to keep them sufficiently motivated to deal with increasingly more difficult kids. As you mentioned, most families now are “double-income families”. That’s a sterile-sounding term for “BOTH PARENTS are at work most of the day and arrive home exhausted and behind on chores.” So, who is “parenting” the kids? Teachers, coaches, after-school care-givers, peers, t.v., and the internet.
Those “un-parented” kids are then sent off to school to be held safely while the parents work. That’s not to say ALL kids in school are in that predicament, but our kids (who do get parenting) are in the same class rooms with those who don’t. The primary role of the teacher is often just to maintain order and avoid chaos.
Even when I was in 9th grade, one of my teachers told me he loved our class (the honors class) but hated all the “Zoo Classes”… which is what they called all the classes in which chaos, violence, and rudeness were the norm. Everyone had given up on those kids, opting to pin all their hopes (and pressure) on the honors kids.
Point is: SOMETHING needs to be done. The system is broken. I don’t know if it is because it was designed in the 1800’s to produce factory workers, or if it is because now both parents have to work, or if it is because we don’t pay teachers enough to care, or all of the above. But I do know… it’s broken, and we’ve gotta fix it.
I have a few more years to devote to Hunter’s learning experience. After that, and maybe even during, I’ll see what I can do to change the broader educational system.
Hi Lisis.
There certainly is a relevant message here. Widespread communication and information has allowed us to see others who sidestepped a certain educational path, and ended up just fine or even further ahead than those who did not. When some see this, they question the value of much of what they have learned.
This is good because it helps the educational system to challenge its validity from time to time. If a certain class is required, it is up to people taking it to voice concern about whether the material in it continues to be fitting for modern times, or if there is a better way to get it across. That is, if the main goal is to educate each person in the class as much as possible.
I do see this as a topic that will be brought up more and more.
Thanks for the quotes as well.
Armen Shirvanian´s last blog ..Timeless Information Video #2
@ Tristan: I definitely think EDUCATION is vital at all stages… I just don’t think schools are designed to provide an education. We can learn, even highly complex subjects, on our own. Schools are basically a business, whose primary purpose is not to provide our kids with the support and tools they need, but merely to keep them safe while parents work.
This is not the case in all countries, but it is a huge problem in the U.S. Our priorities are all screwed up. We fund wars, but not education and health care. We value money and prestige, but not knowledge and contribution to society. We have put our kids on a path to achievement and the accumulation of wealth, instead of fulfillment and the creation of productive solutions to the world’s problems. We label them, grade them, punish them, and force them… instead of embracing and encouraging them to make the most of their unique gifts.
Your last sentence is VERY important… the key to education is the student’s passion to learn. Not many schools are focused on cultivating and fostering that PASSION for learning… yet.
Good video. I was already subscribed to their channel, but hadn’t seen that video yet.
Some subjects should be learned, like reading and basic math. But a classroom is rarely a good place for getting an education.
James NomadRip´s last blog ..Adventure Photographer Trevor Clark – Part 1
I’m an 18 year old longtime unschooler, and I am very much in favour of it. I truly believe that unschooling is the best educational philosophy out there. It’s been wonderful to grow while following my own interests and passions, reading, writing, researching, having TONS of wonderful conversations with family and friends (I’ve learned more from involved conversations with interesting people than from anything else), exploring the world around me at my own pace… So yes, I’d definitely say that unschooling is a wonderful option!
Peace,
Idzie
Idzie´s last blog ..Some of the newest additions to my quote collection…
I started gifted classes in elementary school while my brother (who had a MUCH higher IQ) was placed in classes from the learning disabled because he was “emotionally handicapped”…which is no surprise given the climate in our home and a decision that still upsets me to this day.
The difference between our respective educational paths was PHENOMENAL. Gifted classes encouraged innovation and imagination while the LD classes catered to the lowest common denominator.
I don’t think all traditional education is ‘bad’ but the model our school systems work on is a model set in place to produce employees for the industrial revolution. It is broken, broken, broken!
I love how the video identifies that we are preparing students for jobs that don’t even exist yet. 1) Because it’s true and 2) because we are still preparing them for job.
Hayden Tompkins´s last blog ..How to Rock Your Life
@ Armen: You know, I think that is what we (homeschool/ unschool types) are really asking for… it’s time to re-evaluate and re-design the system. Bringing in new technology, like laptops and smart boards, to make the old system fancier, doesn’t actually make it any better. Our educations system is antiquated and failing our children… what do we do about it? I know there’s an answer… there’s ALWAYS an answer. We’ve just got to find and implement it.
@ James: I love that! “A classroom is rarely a good place for getting an education.” I need to include you in my next collection of unschooling quotes!
@ Idzie: Hi! I’m so excited you are here! I just “met” you through that facebook unschooling group, and was so impressed by your spirit and zest for life. You (and Eli) are my inspiration for what Hunter can grow up to be. I’m just so proud of you guys and I barely even know you! Thanks for weighing in on this conversation.
@ Hayden: You’ve hit the nail on the head with that lowest common denominator issue. Even in gifted classes, the teacher has to teach to the middle of the bell curve, and make allowances for the slower ones to catch up. That means someone is always bored (that was usually me). The other issue is that this antiquated system prepares them for antiquated jobs, instead of whatever life throws at them, or whatever they want to create, when they grow up.
There has to be a better way. We owe it to our kids to find it.
Oh Lisis, this is courageous, because you are going to put your money where your mouth is with Hunter and THAT is different from just having an opinion.
I am currently encouraging my daughter to NOT follow the system of the corporate world and THAT feels scary too.
It is so mcuh easier to follow and yet bad mouth the system and blame it than really opting out and not knowing what the consequences are for Hunter’s future.
THAT is big for us as parents.
However I do think that education is highly overrated and that how Helen Keller was educated is the way to go.
Children do NOT have to be socialized by entering a school community where people have bad socializing skills and habits anyway.
Hunter will learn how to think for himself and discern just like Helen Keller never was really socialized in a ‘normal’ way and had a great life and connected wiht people just fine.
My partner has shunted formal education and he can think and solve problems in a way I have seldom seen.
I have an education and am dumb and cannot solve problems outside the ones I am familiar with.
In Holland there is a school that teaches children a very different way, there are educational institutions that try.
Maybe their info might support your choice to unschool him, this is the link http://www.aventurijn.org/en/learning-from-life/ for the english version.
Lisis, doing it is vastly diffferent than just talking about it, I can understand your hesitation as you feel responsible for his future. However you can never go wrong with unschooling as long as you are there with your authenticity.
Ann Sullivan was an authentic teacher in integrity and honest about what she observed and she acted upon her honest observations coming from love, if you do too, Hunter will be more than okay, he will shine and leave all the educated ones far behind.
He will learn how to live, we educated ones have learned to copy. There is a huge difference in that.
You are soooo on the right track, you have all my support. Love Wilma
wilma ham´s last blog ..Part 2. Making requests, an underestimated skill.
[...] 15 Brilliant Thoughts About Unschooling (And my Own) [...]
I have one son who has made it through the public school system. I do believe traditional school is difficult and painful for everyone. Children do not get the complete education they need from such a “leveling” system. So parents need to help out with academic, cultural and recreational experiences as well.
Our jobs as parents (in my opinion) is to prepare our children to not only survive, but thrive in the world and throughout their lives. I think we are to help them with coping mechanisms and creative problem solving techniques, They will never get that in school.
I agree with Diggy. What they get there is an understanding of how a system works (good or bad), how to navigate the system, and how socially to make friends and sustain relationship outside of mom and dad. That is the valuable part of school.
You are such a conscientious mom and I admire the thought and effort you put into your child’s formative years. Great post and great job with Hunter.
Erin´s last blog ..Miracles Daily
@ Wilma: You are so right that DOING it is very different than having an abstract, hypothetical conversation about how education should or shouldn’t be. I’m not lost in philosophical musings, I really do want the best possible life for my son. I’ve got skin in this game, and it matters a great deal. So I really appreciate your link to a different system I might learn from, as well as Suzen’s tip about the apprenticeships. This, for me, is a work in progress. Maybe once I’ve been through it all with Hunter, I’ll be able to apply what I learned to help re-design “the system”.
@ Erin: You bring up a very important point, and that is: IF school is the best option for you (either because you have to work, your kid prefers social settings, or you just don’t feel cut out for homeschooling), then focus on the positives. Use the frustrations and limitations of the school system as a learning opportunity, because many things in life are that way. Help your kids work through the social issues, teach them how to be productive during idle time, and encourage them the make the most of each class even if their peers don’t. Every experience has many life lessons to offer us. As parents, we need to help our kids see those too, whether it is at school or at home.
Hey Lisis, what an engaging topic (and, sorry I’m so late to join in!)
First, I loved the video – full of awesomeness.
I think I’m a bit of a fly in the ointment here. I need to first say that since I wasn’t home-schooled and actually don’t know that much about unschooling – I’m not sure what possible consequences (or relevances) exist regarding the point I will try to make. I also freely admit that our schools have major problems. There needs to be more relevance, more education about how to handle money (just one thing that comes to mind), but here’s my thing.
Attending traditional school and going to college was the ONLY way I could become a scientist. Plus, I didn’t decide to go that route until I was a freshman in college. And, originally, I wanted to be a hard-core, run-my-own-lab, go-for-the-Nobel-Peace-Price scientist (well, that or a physician). I was really hard core about my studies, where I to applied for my post-doctoral fellowship, all that jazz. And I really think, for now anyway, kids need to go this route to be in the science-, math-, and engineering-related fields.
OK, I admit that I don’t have kids of my own, but I’d want them to have the most options available. Our schools certainly need fixing, and I definitely don’t think all kids NEED to go to public/private school and college. But I had to go this route to reach my goals, and just had to put up with it. I think a lot can be done from home (parenting) to fill the gaps.
As a side note, I think after high school all kids should have to either spend three years in service to others (like Americorps -with pay / tuition reimbursement / scholarships) or something similar to give them some time to figure out who they are. While being in the Army wasn’t the most peaceful thing for me to choose, it helped me decide what to do with my life and gave me perspectives from living in countries overseas and exposure to other cultures.
Just my two cents…
Thanks for a great topic today!
Lori´s last blog ..Jane Makes Me Feel Warm and Loving
Hey, Lori! Thanks for your awesome comment. You bring up a very interesting point… a bridge I haven’t crossed ’cause I haven’t come to it. What about the more advanced and specific subjects, like Chemistry, Physics, Math, Engineering, etc…?
Keeping in mind that we’re in third grade right now, I’ll tell you my “gut” feeling on this. I could see Hunter becoming an Engineer, even having been homeschooled. I’m sure there are lots of kids who have done it, but I don’t know any of them, so I’ll keep this to what I know.
Right now he’s advanced for his grade… he understands math better than most third graders. Because I know he loves it and is good at it (and will probably grow up to do something math-related), I spend extra time helping him with it. When he outgrows my abilities, I will find a tutor for him. When he’s done with high school, he may be able to test into any University program (high math SAT?). But if he can’t, because I didn’t prepare him quite enough, he can go to a community college first to “beef up” his understanding of college level math. After two years there, he could transfer to a university of his choosing.
I think the only reason I would need to stress out about him having all the official math classes (or science, or whatever) right now is if I wanted him to get into an ivy league school, an MIT, right after high school. And even then, I’m pretty sure they have admitted homeschoolers into their programs because they appreciate the out of the box thinking and creative problem solving.
So, even if he wanted the hardcore scientist, Nobel Prize route, I think he could still get there being homeschooled or unschooled. Besides, I hear they give those Nobel Prizes out for potential, rather than actual achievements… right?
Working in a public school system gives me a different perspective on this issue. One of the biggest problems in the current educational system is the “test” model. Teachers are put under so much pressure to prepare students for state tests and it is so tied into funding the government provides that it is hard to really be creative or dynamic.
Also, it is important to remember that a teacher-student relationship is bidirectional. It is not about the teacher pouring knowledge into the empty cups of children. It is an interaction and just like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it.
A third point is if we invested more money in the public educational system instead of building better sports stadiums and creating better weapons, we might actually begin the shift that needs to occur.
lena´s last blog ..Using "The Peaceful Scene"
Hi, Lena! Thank you for bringing up these new issues! I had forgotten to mention any of this (well, I kinda hinted at your third point).
1. Teaching to the test is a HUGE problem. Hunter’s peers, who go to public schools, were learning how to fill in bubble sheets on day one of first grade! When one friend came over to play, she always wanted to play this game where she would write down a question for him, with multiple choice answers, and he had to choose the one that applied. It was like Truth or Dare, or Would You Rather, but in “test” format. It was a little weird, really, but a product of this system that rewards schools (and teachers) for test scores above all else.
2. The teacher-student relationship is a big issue. We are asking teachers to take on more parenting roles at a time when we are also limiting their ability to discipline or interact with the kids in any “non-traditional” ways. In essence, we’re saying, “Here… I have to work, so YOU raise my kid. But don’t spank, yell, say anything that might be mean, or that might be construed as inappropriate.” The teachers hands are tied… teach to the test, be surrogate parents for kids, don’t discipline them or get too creative in your teaching methods, oh… and we can’t afford to pay you much for it.
Something’s gotta give! And I’ll tell you what… I don’t think it needs to come from the teachers. I think it needs to come from the parents. If you are going to send your kids to school, then send them there to LEARN, not to be parented by the teachers. Teach them respect, values, human decency, diligence, etc. at home so that the teachers can make the most of their time with your kids.
I’m just saying… it starts with the parents, then the schools.
When I think back on my childhood I am thankful that I was given a lot of time to curl up and read — whether it was Hardy Boys books or Dungeons & Dragons manuals or something else
— that was where I really learned how to read and write, certainly much more so than in the classroom.
Hi Lisis!
I am with you 100% here. Formal education is a broken, incomplete system. All of these thoughts are brilliant, and there are probably many more out there from some of the world’s most learned people.
I also like the point you made about socialization: it isn’t always great, and school isn’t the only place to get it. I think for most people, high school in particular averages out to be a fairly painful social experience.
David Cain´s last blog ..The Easiest Way to Suffer
Wow, look at all these comments. Seems you have hit on a powerful and interesting topic. This is the first I’m hearing of the unschooling method of education. I must admit, it sounds very interesting. Like one of your commentors, I also particpated in the “gifted” program in elemenatry shool. In this program the “smarter” kids spend one day per week in a special class. In this class we were challenged to think, with many projects and reports to work on. It was the only school day each week that I looked forward to. It was the only day we were permitted to really think and be creative.
I wrote a blog recently about how school ruined reading for me. They took something that could be enjoyable, and filled it with the stress and pressure of deadlines, searching for plot, character analysis, and all the other stuff that can fit into a “testable” result. It took me many years to regain a love and appreciation for reading.
I also tire of the socialization pushers. Seems like most moms in our neighborhood are aghast at the fact that our 3 year old daughter isn’t in preschool. They all assume that is why she is shy and slow to warm up to other children. When actually, like her mother and father, that’s just her nature. Some folks need a little more time to warm up and to get to know others.
Thanks for bringing up this topic of unschooling, I’m going to look into it further.
Eric ´s last blog ..Walking across america – 10,000 steps at a time
@ Chris: I’m glad you mentioned that because one of my main priorities since moving to this apartment has been setting up Hunter’s “reading nook”… a really cool area in the basement with a hammock and lots of cushions and blankets on the floor, designed to encourage him to curl up with a book during his free moments (which are plenty!). He spends a TON of time reading… for fun!
@ David: That’s been my impression of high school. Even when it appears to be a smashing success, underneath the perfect veneer there is usually a good bit of pain going on. It’s not easy to be constantly judged by everyone around you, while at the same time trying to concentrate in class (without looking like the teacher’s pet) in order to keep your parents happy. High school is one big ball of conflicting emotions, I think. I don’t know what I would do if someone told me I had to go through THAT phase again!
@ Eric: One of Hunter’s friends, who goes to public school, has that sort of set up. One or two days a week, for part of the day, he goes to the “creative learning” group (or something like that). My question for the school, if I was the parent, would be, “why isn’t every day like this?” Clearly, it’s the ONLY day the kid is interested in, and the only time he is able to be challenged and make the most of his abilities. The rest of the time, he might as well be in recess!
Oh, and school has ruined reading for SO many people… it’s a travesty, really. I have always LOVED reading because my mom loved it. When I got to school, I was already hooked… but they sure tried to take the fun out of it.
My sister went through something like what you are going through with your daughter. She kept her kids home until they were old enough for Kinder (6?), and everyone lectured her about how her kids needed to learn to separate from her, and to socialize with others, and how they would be handicapped in their school “career” because of her choice. WHATever.
They are doing GREAT… excelling in classes and loved by teachers and friends. In fact, they are usually the positive example that shines for the other kids because they are so well-adjusted and happy. Don’t listen to the neighborhood moms… they’re just jealous!
“Education is a sort of sick joke played on youth by society.â€
That quote showed up on an SAT essay last week. I couldn’t agree more. We need more options in public education. Sit down, shut up, and do your work no longer works.
I left my son alone to follow his passions. By the time he graduated high school, he’d taught himself six programming languages. In college he said, “Mom, I can’t justify writing my German vocabulary words three times each on index cards when I could be earning $150 an hour programming.” At 21, with no degree or resume, he was offered a job making $110,000/year. The most I ever made with my M.Ed. was $45,000.
You’re on the right track with Hunter. Let him follow his passion.
Brenda´s last blog ..Titus Says Happy Halloween
@ Brenda: That’s a great quote… funny that it was on the SAT! We definitely need more options. The current system does not adequately prepare our kids for this newer, faster Life 2.0 that we live in today (and I can only imagine what it will be like in 10 to 20 years!).
Your son is on the right track. He has definitely caught on to the fact that busywork is not the way to progress. Examples abound of people who walked away from higher education to pursue their passions and create their own future. And for those who say, “But you HAVE to have a degree!” there are countless examples of people who go back to college later in life, when they know what they want, to get a specific type of training or degree. But wandering aimlessly through college trying to find yourself, while racking up thousands in debt, just doesn’t seem sensible anymore. Don’t we know better by now?
Debt is the enemy of inner peace. Most things can be learned for free (or cheap) nowadays. Why go into debt, and invest 4+ years for a piece of paper that doesn’t get you any closer to achieving your dreams? It’s time to think way, way out of the box, like your son is doing. Good for him (and you, for supporting him)!
Hi Lisis,
Is learning in the school education system better than learning on our own is something that we need to think about.
I have to say that school does not teach us everything that we need to know in life and maybe only 20% of what we had learned is useful. It will be good to learn by ourselves but the issue is that one must be committed to be learning instead of spending time on tasks that are of low values (surfing aimlessly online or playing games.)
Cheers,
Vincent
Vincent´s last blog ..Interview #2: Interview With Celestine Chua From CelestineChua.com
Hey, Vincent! I always thought this too… which is why I started with homeschooling (complete with a Classical curriculum). But the more I read about unschooling, the more it seems like that may not be the case. John Holt (founder of unschooling) is of the opinion that if we take the kids out of school, only to do the same thing at home, we haven’t really improved anything.
Some would argue that kids learn about life in the process of whatever interests them. I still haven’t figured out the details of how a hands off approach eventually leads to the desired result, though… but I’m working on it.
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My husband and I both got degrees. Useless. So I determined from the very start that I would homeschool our kids. (I believe that schools are a tool of Satan, but that’s another discussion).
My criteria were: they must learn to read, write and speak grammatically correct and socially acceptable English and they must be able to perform correctly the basic mathematic functions (add, subtract, multiply and divide) and know where/when/how to apply them appropriately.
Beyond that, I was flexible. I hoped to ignite the desire to learn, having taught them how to begin to find information.
I was successful with my eldest, a kinesthetic learner. She loves to read and often pursues her own rabbit trails.
Not so with my middle one, a visual learner. She wanted to know exactly what she’d have to do to be “done” with school. I told her, she did it, and that was that. However, she is a gifted self-taught floral designer, which explains a lot.
My third was the biggest challenge. She’s an auditory learner and not quite as quick as her sisters. It was apparent early on that this one would have no use for most of the curriculum I could offer. She pursued what interested her, and ignored everything else. She speaks well, struggles constantly with math, and neither writes nor reads well. Not as much of a homeschooled success as I’d hoped. There just comes a point where it’s not worth fighting daily.
However. All three have been gainfully employed (in retail – not fast food) since age 17 and are highly regarded by their employers. They go above and beyond daily, making sure that their customers are satisfied, and each time they move to a different department, sales go up in the new one and drop in the old one.
I am a firm believer in unschooling – with the proviso that the student finds things to pursue. I recommend John Holt’s Teach Your Own. It made all the difference to me.
Hi, Trece! Thanks so much for adding your story here. I am ALWAYS looking for homeschool and unschool “graduates”, to learn from their examples.
What you’ve mentioned here is so important for anyone considering non-traditional schooling: that every kid is different. Each has their own way of learning and some may even do better in traditional schools.
In our case, my son is like your eldest… LOVES to read, research and learn on his own. Whenever I try to impose a curriculum or “force” a topic he checks out, completely bored. But when HE is interested in something, there’s no stopping him. He’ll teach himself everything about it.
So my approach has been much like yours: teach strong fundamentals (the 3 R’s) so that he has the tools to pursue whatever he wants later on. This seems to be working really well for us now.
I definitely need to check out Teach Your Own. THANKS!!